STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
Many Israelis have criticized their own government's conduct of this war, and that includes a former prime minister of Israel. Ehud Olmert is a longtime critic of his successor, Benjamin Netanyahu. He said for some time, including on this program, that Netanyahu seemed to have no long-term strategy, and now Ehud Olmert says something more, writing an article for an Israeli newspaper asserting that Israel is committing war crimes. He's on the line. Welcome back to the program, sir.
EHUD OLMERT: Hi. Good morning.
INSKEEP: I want to acknowledge you previously rejected the accusation of war crimes against Israel. What specifically would have changed your mind?
OLMERT: Well, a couple of things. No. 1 - the fact that senior Israeli ministers in the cabinet called expressly and explicitly to deny any humanitarian needs from the people in Gaza, a couple of million people living in Gaza, and they say they should all starve and be demolished. This is a call for war crime by the many senior ministers in the cabinet, without one comment by the prime minister that he's not - that he does not support this. And then, of course...
INSKEEP: I wonder if I could just interrupt for a second. From the very first days of the war, in fact, right on October 7, Israel blocked food and other aid from getting into Gaza. That has come and gone from time to time, but there have been statements like this all along. What pushed that over into war crimes if it was before?
OLMERT: It's a matter of volume, you know? At some point, when it becomes critical, and there are hundreds of thousands of people looking for food, and the supply does not arrive because of the actions taken by the government of Israel with specific orders to deny these foods. At some point, it crosses the line which distinguishes it from just something which is not done to a crime. And this is what happens. This is one thing. I said there were two things.
INSKEEP: Go on.
OLMERT: The other is the expansion of the war has no purpose, no military achievable purpose. And this is the opinion of not just me, but of hundreds of former commanders of the Israeli army on all ranks, including the chief of staff and the commanders of the Mossad in the Secret Service, and so on. All of us are absolutely certain that there is not any achievable purpose that is worth continuing and expanding this operation. Now, while these operations are not going to save the hostages, are not going to achieve any important national interest, and hundreds of people are killed on a daily basis, who are not involved. This is a crime.
INSKEEP: Well, let's - let me hear what you have to say about Prime Minister Netanyahu's justification for continuing the war. I believe it is the same as it's been since October 7, and he has also been in this program and talked about his goal of completely eliminating Hamas. He insists that it's still the goal. He insists that it's giving in to terrorism if you were to stop short of that goal. What is wrong with the reasoning there, if anything?
OLMERT: Nothing is wrong with the reasoning, except that it's false and fake and untrue in an outright attempt to divert the attention from the failures of the government and Netanyahu himself. A couple of days ago, he said, like, what happened on the 7th of October? A couple thousands of Palestinian terrorists with sandals came to hit us. And a day later, he said that Hamas, after 18 months of fighting, is an imminent danger to the very life and security and existence of the state of Israel. This is - you know, there is not the cleanest language, which would describe what it is. I prefer not to use it, but I say...
INSKEEP: Understood.
OLMERT: ...This. This is false. We are fighting - we were fighting Hamas for 18 months. At this point now Hamas is almost completely destroyed, eradicated. The tunnels, the command position, the launchers, the rockets, all disappear because they were destroyed by us. Many of - most of the leaders, senior leaders, were eliminated by us. At this point, there is only one question - is this expansion of operation going to save the hostages or not? If it's not going to save the hostages, perhaps the opposite, bring their demise, if we are losing Israeli soldiers and if hundreds of Palestinians are being killed in these operations, then this is what it is, a crime.
INSKEEP: Let me just ask. You mentioned also your concern about people starving in Gaza, which seems pretty obvious that it's happening. Israel has attempted to start up this new aid system, which many people around the world have criticized and resisted, and there was some difficulty yesterday, to say the least. But aid is supposed to be provided. It sounds like you're not satisfied, not impressed with that effort.
OLMERT: No. I hope that it will be done. But to be very sincere with you, look, state of Israel can't eat the cake and have it at the same time. The government of Israel, I'm sorry, not the state. The government of Israel can't eat the cake and have it at the same time. Whether either we are so desperate and so weak and so inefficient, that we can't make sure that when we provide the humanitarian needs, it is done in an effective way that satisfies the needs of the people, or we are so powerful that we can destroy everything and remove everything and reach out for everyone. You know, you can't be both at the same time. And I'm afraid that the inefficiency in providing the humanitarian needs is a reflection of the lack of desire by the senior minister of the government in the first place to provide it.
INSKEEP: Let me ask - we've got about 20 seconds left. Prime Minister Netanyahu has said he doesn't want to stop until the Trump plan is implemented, meaning removing everybody from Gaza. Does that strike you as a desirable or practical goal?
OLMERT: No, no. I'm afraid not, and I think that Trump - I like him very much, I have to say, I think he forgot that he said it. It's only something that Netanyahu holds onto in an attempt to try and postpone the end of the war.
INSKEEP: Former Prime Minister Ehud Olmert. Thanks very much for your time. It's good to talk with you.
OLMERT: Thank you. Take care.
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