A MARTÍNEZ, HOST:
Representatives from Russia and Ukraine are expected to gather in Turkey for talks today. It's their first since the early months of Russia's full-scale invasion in 2022. Now, hopes that these talks could produce a breakthrough have faded, as the Kremlin says Russian President Vladimir Putin will not be attending. NPR's Joanna Kakissis has been covering this story. She's on the line from Kyiv.
Joanna, so Putin's not going to be there. Who will be showing up in Turkey?
JOANNA KAKISSIS, BYLINE: So, A, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is already there. He's meeting with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan in Ankara today. Zelenskyy says, if he and Putin ever meet, that could lead to establishing a full ceasefire that could pave the way for negotiations on ending the war. But without Putin in attendance, Zelenskyy says he might only send a diplomatic delegation. And by the way, Secretary of State Marco Rubio is also in Turkey and could join talks.
MARTÍNEZ: So now that Putin's not going to show up, what happens now?
KAKISSIS: Well, Zelenskyy says that this is just proof that Putin is not reliable and does not want to end this war - a war that Russia started. Here's Zelenskyy during his video address last night.
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PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY: (Speaking Ukrainian).
KAKISSIS: He's saying answers to all questions about this war - why it started, why it continues - all these answers are in Moscow. He says Ukraine is ready for any format of negotiations and that he is not afraid of a meeting.
MARTÍNEZ: Yeah. So he's suggesting there that Putin is afraid.
KAKISSIS: Yeah. Yeah, that's what Zelenskyy has said - that Putin is afraid of meeting him face-to-face. It's not clear, though, A, if this is showmanship, or if he was just trying to goad Putin into attending these talks in Turkey. Now, Putin has made it very, very clear that he despises Zelenskyy. He looks down on him, says he's an illegitimate leader. And that may be why Putin is sending low-level diplomats to Turkey, even after letting expectations build for days that he would be there, along with President Trump.
MARTÍNEZ: Yeah. Trump hinted this week that he might attend, but that's not what he's saying now.
KAKISSIS: Yeah, that's right. Trump is traveling in the Middle East now. This morning in Qatar, he said, why would he go today to Turkey if Putin is not going?
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PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: 'Cause I wasn't going to go. I wasn't planning to. I would go, but I wasn't planning to go. And I said, I don't think he's going to go if I don't go, and that's turned out to be right. But we have people there.
KAKISSIS: Now, Trump added that he might come on Friday if something happened with today's talks and that it's, quote, "appropriate." There was a lot of speculation that Trump's presence would bring Putin and Zelenskyy to the table.
MARTÍNEZ: Joanna, how do we get to this diplomatic point?
KAKISSIS: Yeah, well, the leaders of France, the U.K., Germany and Poland - they all traveled to Kyiv this past Saturday to declare their backing for a 30-day ceasefire starting May 12. Then Trump chimed in, also calling for the same thing. They all say if the ceasefire did not happen, they would impose further sanctions on Russia. Putin countered by offering direct talks without mentioning the ceasefire proposal. So far, the new sanctions on Russia have not been imposed. The Kremlin does worry about these, but they also believe they have the upper hand in this war.
MARTÍNEZ: So speaking of the war, I mean, where does that stand right now?
KAKISSIS: So Russia certainly believes that time is on their side - that delays in negotiations can only help them. But in reality, the Russians are only making small, incremental gains at a rate that would take many years to conquer Ukraine, and Russia has already lost hundreds of thousands of soldiers. And Ukraine says that despite this, the Kremlin is making unreasonable demands in exchange for peace, like ordering Ukraine to hand over territory that Russia doesn't even fully occupy.
MARTÍNEZ: All right. That's NPR's correspondent Joanna Kakissis in Kyiv. Joanna, thanks.
KAKISSIS: You're welcome. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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